Help! Ladder issue still a mystery!

[crauds]

Hi Umberto!

   I read your answer to my post the other day.  I read the manual and it mentions nothing about how to add/remove the ladder for the marshaller.  I used a 737 and edited the "airport position" at a small gate used for 737.  The "editor" shows the marshaller on the ground but when I exit the editor and again try parking at the gate, he is back up on the ladder.  I see nowhere that I can set his elevation to 0 in any of the GSX/couatl settings menus.  I am confused.  I want the ladder for large planes such as MD11, 747,767, Concorde, etc. but for smaller aircraft (B737, MD80, etc.) marshaller needs to stand on the ground.  How can I set that up?

Craig

[virtuali]

I see nowhere that I can set his elevation to 0 in any of the GSX/couatl settings menus. 

Page 33 of the GSX manual, "Increase/Decrease object height", keys Q/Z

[crauds]

I am aware of Q/Z in slew but I push the Z key but there is no way of gauging the elevation.  I kept pushing it a dozen times but can find no readout (like I used to see when I was setting up fueling points, doors, etc) How do I know when it is 0?  So after a dozen times I repositioned the aircraft moving toward the gate and the marshaller still appeared on a 1 step platform but this time he was inside a tall ladder!  Please, how do I get rid of the ladder.  And do I have to do this for every small gate? (I have thousands of them in over 800 airports I have rebuilt!)

Craig  

[virtuali]

How do I know when it is 0?

You might try editing the scenery .INI file in the %APPDATA%\Virtuali\GSX folder directly, for example:

parkingsystem_objectposition = 35.2204651840485 -80.9467753941004 -3.74729919433598 0

The first 3 numbers are lat, lon, heading (this is at KCLT, for example), the LAST one, the 0, is the ground height of the object. You might want to change all the non-zero values, at parking where the parkingsystem = 1, which is the Marshaller.

this time he was inside a tall ladder!  Please, how do I get rid of the ladder.

The ladder is there IN THE EDITOR, only because you keep using a large airplane to edit, but it won't appear if it's not needed, depending on the plane used, the parking position and the preferred exist.

Please READ the manual about how the preferred exit works, and how the new option to ignore works, when used with large airplanes with a preferred exit on the 2nd door.

And do I have to do this for every small gate? (I have thousands of them in over 800 airports I have rebuilt!)

You mean you customized all your airports with the same very large airplane and you customized the marshaller position at all gate and at all airports ??  I don't think all your files requires this change, because we added the ability to change the parking position height fairly recently so, files you edited a while ago should have the height at 0.

[crauds]

OK.  But I did use an FSX default B737 (a small aircraft) to try to change the marshaller height.  And as you can see, the marshaller was lowered but the ladder was still there.  I did this at one particular gate and then I tested other small parking gates at the same airport but they were all still showing the marshaller UP on the ladder!   I do remember editing one footprint (gate position) using ADE while I had the PMDG 747 parked there.  But I closed FSX before I compiled the AFCAD so how could GSX be affected?  I never at any time went into your GSX editor, if that's what you mean.  I simply installed your latest version of GSX and Addon Manager from your website after I had installed FSX SP1 and my PMDG aircraft on my new system (with Win10).  I then updated when you sent me notice of an update.  But everything seemed already set up.  The exits, the fueling point, and the vehicles all seemed to link up correctly to PMDG 747 v3 and likewise to PMDG NGX and the Level-D 767, so there was no reason for me to even open up your graphics editor!  I still want the ladder for Level-D 767 and of course for PMDG 747 and eventually the ConcordeX (after Microsoft fixes their latest upgrade for Win10), but these all park in the heavy parking footprints (I use parking codes).  Any planes I use that park in the medium or small footprints are smaller and lower to the ground so require marshaller to be on the ground.  Can't I set this up universally without having to edit every airport and every parking position I use?

EDIT:  OK. I went into GSX and the only airport in the directory was Tampa and only the gate that I had used to edit the marshaller.  I did lower this to 0 but the other gates aren't even present so the issue is not with anything I could have done, Umberto.  If I had any edits (accidentally or otherwise) wouldn't they appear in this directory?

Craig

[virtuali]

And as you can see, the marshaller was lowered but the ladder was still there.

You still don't understand...

One thing is the fact that, if you edited that parking spot with a large airplane, the marshaller height might have been *saved* to an height different to zero, which is why I said it's best to edit with a different plane or, a larger plane, which is parked in a position that won't require a ladder and this is depending ALSO on the "Preferred Exit" setting and ALSO on the flag in the GSX configuration page that allows you to ignore it on a specific parking.

Another thing, is the fact that, due to the parking position, the *marshaller* position, the airplane used, the cockpit eye-point height, GSX has calculated the marshaller will be too low to be seen, so it will use a ladder ANYWAY, even if it has been set to 0.

So, you must be sure you set everything correctly:

- the parking stop position

- the marshaller position

Because, even if your airplane is "small", the marshaller itself might have been positioned too close, or the stopping position might be way too forward, and this will result in the ladder appearing.

[crauds]

Please read my post #4 above.

 I never edited anything with any airplane.  As evidenced in my GSX file you directed me to.  Tere is only one edit in the directory and it is the one you told me to do with a small (B737) airplane, supposedly to correct the problem.

  As for the positioning of aircraft.  I use a very precise algorithm I developed by trial and error back in 2010 and it positions the aircraft so that it is in perfect position for FSX jetway to operate and after you introduced the marshallers I adjusted the positioning to insure that the marshaller was visible and not hidden by the back wall.  That again is an AFCAD issue not a GSX.
Any changes that needed to be done back then were done to the AFCAD not to GSX or marshaller.  The GSX that I am running on my new setup is right from your site.  I have NOT edited anything.  You told me in an earlier post to put a small airplane in a parking spot and use your graphic editor (which I have never needed to use before) to lower the marshaller.  That is the only edit I did and it seems to have failed because the marshaller now stands on the ground INSIDE the ladder!  Also my edit to that one parking place does nothing for the other small parking places.  They still show the guy up on the ladder.  What needs to happen, Umberto, is that the height of the marshaller has to be tied to the aircraft type NOT the parking space.  That way all small aircraft will have marshaller on the ground no matter where they park and likewise all heavy wide bodies have him on a ladder.  Now examine the copies of the Virtuali\GSX directory I included in Post #4 above, and you will only find the one edit and it WAS done with a small aircraft.  I did as you advised and corrected the z-coordinate to 0.  But nothing has fixed the issue.

Craig

[virtuali]

I never edited anything with any airplane

I indicated TWO different issues. The editing issue, and the positioning issue. If you haven't edited anything, then yours is case #2

I use a very precise algorithm I developed by trial and error back in 2010 and it positions the aircraft so that it is in perfect position for FSX jetway to operate and after you introduced the marshallers I adjusted the positioning to insure that the marshaller was visible and not hidden by the back wall.  That again is an AFCAD issue not a GSX.

So, it's likely you positioned the airplane way too forward, or the marshaller too close to it. If you already have the marshaller so close to the wall that you cannot move it any further behind, and the airplane is already in the only position that can solve the jetway so you cannot move it farther from the Marshaller then, quite simply, YOU NEED THE LADDER.

What needs to happen, Umberto, is that the height of the marshaller has to be tied to the aircraft type NOT the parking space

The height of the Marshaller IS related to the aircraft type! Not the height, of course, the fact he'll use or not a ladder, which is calculated when you USE GSX, depending on the airplane eyepoint in the VC, compared to the distance between the stopping position and the marshaller. The stopping position as defined in GSX.

[crauds]

Then I guess the question is:  what has changed with your latest updates because from my viewpoint parked the way I have the footprints placed, I can see the marshaller just fine but with the ladder I can only see him when I am in the distance but as the aircraft gets close and needs to see him, he is out of sight above my aircraft!  So GSX calculations of viewpoint seem to be in error for the B737.  And, of course, in reality, the marshallers are on the ground for B737 (at least in the USA).

Could this be related:
As I was searching in my files per your suggestion (virtuali\gsx) I noticed that in the aircraft directory I have the new 747 and the Level-D 767 but not the NGX737 that is aircraft with the issue.  And yet when I park the GSX services automatically come to the correct doors on the NGX737 and I have flown 3 flights with it since I installed everything.  Surprised GSX wouldn't have created a default file or already have one preconfigured. 

[virtuali]

what has changed with your latest updates

That's why I said, several times, to read the manual which explains HOW the stop position calculation has been changed, in a more reliable way, of course.

Before, it was dependent by the front gear only, so it only worked well if you used the parking with the same airplane you used to customize it. Now, it takes into account the preferred exit of the currently loaded airplane so, regardless of the airplane used to customize it, the preferred exit will end up being always at the same place. Which is done precisely for the reason to facilitate a predictable alignment for the jetway.

And yet when I park the GSX services automatically come to the correct doors on the NGX737 and I have flown 3 flights with it since I installed everything.  Surprised GSX wouldn't have created a default file or already have one preconfigured. 

The NGX 737 is internally supported (like the Level-D 767 and the PMDG 747), that's why it works already. And, no GSX.CFG file is created unless you start to customize it.

[crauds]

Man, you never sleep!

  Thanks, Umberto.  I will read that portion of the manual and then figure out how to change the footprints on all my small parking AFCADS to assure that I DO NOT get marshaller on a ladder!  I hope that is possible without editing GSX for each parking spot I may use.  I like the options you have provided to allow us to configure for automatic guidance facilities but this involves editing from within FSX (using your editor) for individual gates, I think.  I will postpone that for a later project.

Craig

[crauds]

       Based on what I thought you advised, Umberto, I reread everything in the manual and I understand the stopping distance is adjusted based on size of aircraft so the exit can be reached by the jetway.  Yes, that is real world, but nothing is mentioned about ladders, when they appear or when they don't.  The only new difference is that the marshaller (or guidance) system will adjust the "stop" position accordingly.  What does that have to do with ladders?

          Default FSX has always used different sized parking footprints based on wingspan.  Since the 737 is a smaller jet with a lower viewpoint it will only require parking in a "small" parking space.  The largest of aircraft would not fit but would need to park in a larger (FSX Heavy) space to accommodate a larger wingspan.  Thinking that you were implying that somehow my AFCADs were placing the small spaces too close to the wall I did a test.  I adjusted a small parking footprint in an airport, saved and compiled the AFCAD.  I then loaded FSX and used the FSX default 737 as my test plane.  The first test was with the footprint placed as far back from the wall as the jetway would allow, but still a ladder appeared.  So I reversed the test and compiled the AFCAD with a small space as far forward as possible and still have the jetway activate.  But again, GSX sent a ladder when I selected the gate.

         It seems that this is aircraft specific and not parking space specific.  A high-viewpoint aircraft will always require a ladder when using a marshaller no matter where it parks, and in like manner, a smaller, low-viewpoint aircraft will never need one.  Isn't there some parameter that can be set ON or OFF in the aircraft config file for this?  If not, can one be made available in the next update?

Craig

[virtuali]

Yes, that is real world, but nothing is mentioned about ladders, when they appear or when they don't.  The only new difference is that the marshaller (or guidance) system will adjust the "stop" position accordingly.  What does that have to do with ladders?

You don't seem to have understood my previous explanation. It has everything to do with changed in how the stopping position is calculated because, as I've said, the program calculates if the marshaller might be too close to be seen, taking into account:

1) the eyepoint in the VC

2) the marshaller position ( referred as "Parking System" in the GSX editor, since it can be a docking system too )

3) the calculated stopping position.

Any of these three will affect the calculation and the decision to have a ladder or not. So, if you are still seeing a ladder on a 737, the only possible explanation is that you set the marshaller position too close to the stopping position.

[crauds]

Umberto, I haven't set or adjusted anything!  In the "customize airport positions" I have always just used your default "*" setting for the marshaller and it always worked.  I have no idea what your default setting is in meters and I can't measure distance in FSX scenery.  So if it is up to me to fix your program in order to be able to park my PMDG 737, then what number must I change the asterisk (*) to in order to eliminate the ladder?  You must know, being the programmer, at what minimum distance the ladder is triggered to appear.  I would imagine that everyone in FSX using the smaller aircraft must be having the same issue since it is your default setting not anything I have adjusted. 

Craig

[virtuali]

Umberto, I haven't set or adjusted anything!  In the "customize airport positions" I have always just used your default "*" setting for the marshaller and it always worked.

You said you customized the AFCAD in order to have the jetway ending up in a predictable position (I guess that was the reason for doing that) so, you compensate in the AFCAD for what GSX is doing *NOW* automatically, and better, since GSX takes into consideration the preferred ext.

This means you are now using two compensations, so one of them must be removed so, having edited all your AFCADs, you will have to customize in GSX, by setting the stop position and the marshaller position, in order to de-compensate for the correction you did to the AFCAD.

I have always just used your default "*" setting for the marshaller and it always worked.  have no idea what your default setting is in meters

There's no default distance. This is calculated automatically depending on the airplane eyepoint.

GSX will try to set the marshaller as far as possible, depending on the plane.

However, after a certain maximum distance, it will start to assume it *MIGHT* be inside a building, so it will instead use a ladder. The asterisk only means use a default maximum distance, but you can change it, if you know that, on a certain parking, this won't be enough to prevent the marshaller being inside a building, but since the addition of the ladder, it will be a very rare circumstance.

I can't measure distance in FSX scenery.

Sure you can. We placed a ruler that moves with the airplane in the editor for precisely that reason: so you can estimate with a glance the maximum distance.

Not that this is really necessary now, since you can place the marshaller precisely. If you do that, the marshaller position will not be automatic anymore.