Author Topic: FSDT and DL in P3D4  (Read 4529 times)

Terblanche

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FSDT and DL in P3D4
« on: August 15, 2017, 04:56:42 pm »
Surely, the issue of Dynamic Lights in P3D4 has many of us concerned because of the FPS impact but on my rig, the FSDT and Flightbeam airports especially hit my FPS through the tarmac when DL is switched on. You can downscale to 8xMSAA and swing all the sliders to the left but the impact is just horrifying!

I have a i7 4Ghz GTX1080Ti with 32GB RAM on Windows 7x64 ... with the PMDG B738 at EKCH 8xMSAA and DL on the FPS hovers between 28-32 FPS with landing lights OFF on the PMDG. When I switch the lights on it falls to 22-25
Now, same scenario at KSFO and the FPS hovers between 20-22 FPS and when I switch the landing lights on of the PMDG it falls to under 20. Same at all the other FSDT airports, when DL are switched off in settings the FPS jumps to 30-32

Just for interest sake - with the Carenado King350i at any ORBX scenery (LC, Terrain, and Airports activated) the FPS is a stable 55-59 (locked at 60) with DL on or off.

Something is not right somewhere and I understand the density of these large airports but so are EKCH, ESSA, ENGM, EDDM and the DL don't nearly have the same impact on them as it has in the FSDT airports.

Any advice is welcomed because at the moment it's better to avoid these airports at night and only fly in with DL off and even then the FPS impact is enormous.

Regards
Terblanche
Terblanche Jordaan
From: Cape Town (FACT)

virtuali

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Re: FSDT and DL in P3D4
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 08:43:13 am »
As already discussed here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,16309.msg116401.html#msg116401

There's no Dynamic light hit at FSDT airport that can be attributed to the airport itself. See the video, which shows GSX vehicles at KCLT, and both are using Dynamic lights with no fps hit.

Another post here, confirming Dynamic Lights works smoothly with no performance issues:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,15785.msg113428.html#msg113428

And here, with test results that shows there are no evidence (at least on OUR sceneries), that compiling with the V4 SDK would give any performance benefits, especially in relationship with dynamic lighting:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,16007.msg114745.html#msg114745

And my graphic card ( 980 GTX ), which was used to do both the video and the frame rate tests, is way less powerful then yours.

Of course, as with all proper test (assuming we ARE trying to assess the performance impact of the AIRPORT) related to an airport, they are obviously made with a default airplane so, I'm quite sure that, if you used a default airplane, you will be able to replicate these results.

The issue is, since the P3DV4 graphic engine uses forward rendering (instead of deferred rendering used by other game engines), dynamic lights takes a much bigger hit, which drop significantly after a certain number of lights is used.

Other airports from every other developer out there, cannot do anything to fix this, but thanks to our software, we can optimize them much better. At KCLT, for example, we only display 6-7 dynamic lights at the same time, so we keep the fps impact at minimum, while other airports using just the normal SDK don't have this kind of control so, the airport is as optimized as it can be, especially for dynamic lights.

But of course, if the dynamic lights of your airplane have already put the graphic engine to its limit, you can expect going to an airport which uses dynamic lights too will result in a performance hit, without this being the airport "fault". That's why you should always test with a default airplane first, before saying the problem it's the scenery.

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Same at all the other FSDT airports, when DL are switched off in settings the FPS jumps to 30-32

Of all our airports, the ONLY one that use Dynamic Lights, it's KCLT! No other FSDT airport has a single Dynamic Light in it.  However, according to LM, regardless if the scenery uses DL or not, when the airplane landing lights is being projected around, its fps impact will depend on the complexity of the scenery, even if the scenery didn't had any dynamic lights to begin with so, if you are seeing a performance loss on an FSDT scenery other than KCLT, there just nothing we can to about it: we simply cannot turn off what's is not there in the first place, and the fps hit was caused entirely by the airplane lights.

We can only hope that future updates of the sim will optimize DL more, so the overall number of lights used by the airplane + scenery won't hit the fps so much and won't be affected so much by the scenery complexity.


Terblanche

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Re: FSDT and DL in P3D4
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 05:21:59 pm »
Thank for the detail answer Umberto -

I've read it carefully, and watched the videos (btw: where did you get the 'default' B737 in P3D4)

May I ask for you settings in P3D4? And have you made any alterations to the prepar3d.cfg file and/or nvdia inspector?

What baffles my mind is the follow:
* I did a flight from KIDA to CYVR ... in the PMDG B738 ... daytime ...
* At KIDA airport the FPS were 28-30 (locked at 30) ... did a circle over the town and climbed through the clouds ... the FPS stayed at 28-30 [30]
* Same for in flight and then came the descent to CYVR as I got closer to Vancouver the FPS started to drop ... more and more ... until below 20 FPS
* On short-finals it was a stuttering 12-15 FPS ... after touch down they climb a bit to 18-20 FPS

(Although I run the ORBX US and PNW scenery ... CYVR is disabled in the respective scenery folder)

As I stated in my first post, what I don't understand is the fact that I could do a flight from EKCH to EHAM (both FlyTampa scenery) and the FPS hardly makes a dent at both heavy airports with AI enabled and DL on. If it is aeroplane related the FPS should take a hammering there as well but it is all plain (plane) sailing.

Maybe if I can compare my P3D4 settings to yours it will give an indication of what, where, why, when things start to get throttled on my machine because the 1080Ti should kick some FPS A$s with the FSDT airports.
Terblanche Jordaan
From: Cape Town (FACT)

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Re: FSDT and DL in P3D4
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 08:43:09 am »
I've read it carefully, and watched the videos (btw: where did you get the 'default' B737 in P3D4)

Copy and paste the B737 folder from FSX.

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May I ask for you settings in P3D4? And have you made any alterations to the prepar3d.cfg file and/or nvdia inspector?

I set about everything to medium settings, but I always turn on shadows casting/receiving for most of the objects, and I set Anisotropic filtering. I never, tweak anything in the drivers, those tweaks usually cause more problems than they fix.

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* Same for in flight and then came the descent to CYVR as I got closer to Vancouver the FPS started to drop ... more and more ... until below 20 FPS
* On short-finals it was a stuttering 12-15 FPS ... after touch down they climb a bit to 18-20 FPS

I always get at least 50 fps at CYVR, with no fps drop.

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(Although I run the ORBX US and PNW scenery ... CYVR is disabled in the respective scenery folder)

LM confirmed the impact of DL is not just the lights themselves, it's also the number of objects they project onto, and the size of the light cone. This might affect every object the light touches, including the Autogen so, using an addon scenery might increase the fps impact of landing lights.

Try to reduce the Autogen complexity and the Scenery complexity sliders. If you see a marked improvement (with landing lights), that might be the thing.

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As I stated in my first post, what I don't understand is the fact that I could do a flight from EKCH to EHAM (both FlyTampa scenery) and the FPS hardly makes a dent at both heavy airports with AI enabled and DL on.

Both in plain countries with very sparse Autogen regardless of your settings (not all landclass generate the same number of autogen). Compared with CYVR, which is located in an area with very dense Autogen classes, like forests and where a popular addon (OrbX PNW) that enhances it is available.

Terblanche

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Re: FSDT and DL in P3D4
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 10:34:30 pm »
It all makes sense what you say ... and I've tried to slide all the way to the left and the difference is marginal. What I don't understand, with full acknowledgement to the above mentioned - if I can fly into EDDF (latest from Aero) with almost all sliders to the right, with a PMDG B744, with AI and AS16, 4xSSAA and the FPS remain a steady 25-30 [locked 30] why oh why then do I have to fly into KSFO with the same aerie, no AI, with sliders almost to the left and then it becomes a slide-show on short-finals? Autogen is to a minimum, scenery is below normal, water turned down to low, ORBX California disabled, and i ... it ... sss. tutters between 12-18 FPS.
No tweaks in prepar3d.cfg. Nothing in NI, and I can even turn it right down into the shimmers of 2xMSAA ... and I don't even touch the landing or taxi lights of the B744.

It will really really be nice to fly into all the scenery I've purchased from FSDT but I don't fly default aircraft  :'(
Terblanche Jordaan
From: Cape Town (FACT)

virtuali

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Re: FSDT and DL in P3D4
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 09:41:42 am »
with a PMDG B744, with AI and AS16, 4xSSAA and the FPS remain a steady 25-30 [locked 30] why oh why then do I have to fly into KSFO with the same aerie, no AI, with sliders almost to the left and then it becomes a slide-show on short-finals?

?? KSFO ? I thought you said you had a problem with FSDT sceneries ? Apparently, the issue is the same even in KSFO, which is from Flightbeam.

Are you using the very latest V2 version ? If yes, they have added Dynamic Lights but, having removed support for our software, they also lost the possible optimizations of dynamic lights we used in KCLT to keep the number of displayed lights strictly under control so, they are now in the hands of the sim.

If you are still using the original KSFO HD version, it didn't used dynamic lights in the first place so, it's possible the larger impact (compared to Aerosoft) might just due to the use of more advanced materials and shaders in the Flightbeam scenery, which is something they have in common with the latest FSDT sceneries. Aerosoft sceneries usually are made with simpler textures/materials.