AFCAD

[Swisspilot]

Hi there

First thank you for the outstanding Zurich Scenery. I am happy to find my homebase so real in the Flightsim now.
The only thing I am not happy with is the AFCAD.
In real life most part of time landings are done on RWY14 and take-off on RWY28 and 16. With this Afcad I only have the posibilty to use one runway (for take-off and landing). I tried to change this, but no success.
If I close one Runway, both take-off and landing are on RWY16 or RW14.
Any chance to change this?
Thank you!
Kind regards
Patrick

[Alessandro]

Tks for your words,

This problem is adjustable with a trick but this solution is a work around not standard, and for a payware is not a good choose (the atc call the dummy runway created with this method, and many users report this same a bug), but for advanced user on next upgrade i have on list a alternative file afcad with this trick.

[harpsi]

Hi

As far as I know (maybe it has changed...) runways in use are this ones:
- 14 and 16 for landings
- 16 and 28 for take-offs
I am quite sure that 28 has also some visual or VORDME approaches, because I landed there in real life as well.

According to this, I have reworked the afcad in order to have all runways available. Some gates have big parking radius as well. That´s why some aircrafts had part of the wings inside buildings and so on... I just did some adjustments. If you like them, feel free to use this afcad. If you want to add aditional things feel free to do them. This is what I did in 10 minutes, so I am sure that much more things can be improved.

harpsi

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Swisspilot]

hi harpsi

thank you very much for this afcad. it is fantastic and i now have all 3 runways active. More than I excpected :-)
good job.
regards
patrick

[harpsi]

Hi

I can fill some spots as well if someone tells me exactly where every airline is parking. I don´t know how is zürich organized in terms of airlines and terminals. If dreamteam makes an update of the scenery (if necessary) and they want to make this, an official afcad as well (with more improvements of course), it is no problem. I already did the afcad files of amsterdam and I did some improvements for cloud 9 as well, so it is always a pleasure to make those things 

The winds ate zürich, as far as I know are normally not too strong, so, the runways which appear at the left side of the runway list are the ones to be used. At least I don´t expect runways 10, 32 and 34 for any operation. I tested it during 1 hour and everything was working like real life. I decided to open 28 for landing as well, because maybe once a time an aircraft will land there. Until now I didn´t see any but it may happen, which is exactly what happens in real life. 

harpsi

[Alessandro]

Hi harpsi

thank you for your work 

Alessandro.

[harpsi]

Hi

Thank you very much. Maybe we can improve this afcad if you tell me exactly where airlines are parking. I will make a list of them according to ultimate traffic available ones and some more that I added.

- These ones exist already in the Ultimate Traffic tool:

Adria
Aebal
Aer Lingus
Aeroflot
Air Baltic
Air Berlin
Air Canada
Air France
Air Mali International
Air Malta
Air Mauritius
Alitalia Express
American Airlines
American Falcon S.A.
Austrian Airlines
Blue1
BMI regional
Braathens ASA
British Airways
Cirrus Airlines
City Airline
City Jet
Continental
Croatia Airlines
Cyprus
Czech Airlines (CSA)
Darwin Airline
Delta
El Al
Emirates
European Air Express
Eurowings
Finnair
Flyniki
Germanwings
Hamburg International
Hapag Lloyd Express
Helvetic Airyways
Iberia
JAT Airways
KLM cityhopper
KLM
Korean Air
LOT
Lufthansa Cityline
Lufthansa
Malaysia Airlines
Malev
MAT - Makedonian Airlines
Montenegro Airlines
Nouvelair
OLT
Portugalia
Privatair
Pulkovo Enterprise
Qatar Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Royal Jordanian
SAS
Singapore Airlines
Spanair
Sun Express
Swiss
Swiss European
TAP Portugal
Thai
Tunisair
Turkish Airlines
Tyrolean (Austrian Arrows)
Ukraine International
United Airlines

- These ones I added later after seeing FP in FS websites and photos from airlines.net:

Axis Airways
Air Adriatic
Air Bosna
AMC Aviation
Atlant- Soyuz
Belair
Clickair
Dubrovnik Airline
Edelweiss
Freebird
GIRjet
Onur Air
Pegasus
Robin Hood Aviation
Shorouk Air (I think this one is not operating any more)
Swiftair
UAE Cargo

So, in conclusion, try to find where all these ones park and step by step I can fill the spots which belong to those.

harpsi

[selkin]

ASIR Page 1, 10 OCT 06:

"LDG-RWY RESTRICTION
MON - FRI:
05-0607: LDG RWY 34.
0608-1959: LDG RWY 14 or 16.
20-0459: LDG RWY 28.
Other RWYs may only be used due to OPS or MET reasons.
SAT - SUN, HOL:
05-0807: LDG RWY 34.
0808-1859: LDG RWY 14 or 16.
19-0459: LDG RWY 28.
Other RWYs may only be used due to OPS or MET reasons.

TKOF RWY RESTRICTION
BTN 06-1959 TKOF shall normally be mad on RWY 28.
When TKOF RWY 28 not possible RWY 10, 34, 32 or 16 shall be used.
BTN 20-0559 all jet ACFT TKOF are to be made on RWY 32 or 34.
BTN 20-0559 TKOF on RWY 34 shall be executed from interseciton with TWY R8 unless whole RWY length is required for safety reasons."

Greez
Fred Nikles

[sapeco]

Hallo

[sapeco]

Soory

Work this AFCAD in the FSX too?

Thk Peter

[harpsi]

ASIR Page 1, 10 OCT 06:

"LDG-RWY RESTRICTION
MON - FRI:
05-0607: LDG RWY 34.
0608-1959: LDG RWY 14 or 16.
20-0459: LDG RWY 28.
Other RWYs may only be used due to OPS or MET reasons.
SAT - SUN, HOL:
05-0807: LDG RWY 34.
0808-1859: LDG RWY 14 or 16.
19-0459: LDG RWY 28.
Other RWYs may only be used due to OPS or MET reasons.

TKOF RWY RESTRICTION
BTN 06-1959 TKOF shall normally be mad on RWY 28.
When TKOF RWY 28 not possible RWY 10, 34, 32 or 16 shall be used.
BTN 20-0559 all jet ACFT TKOF are to be made on RWY 32 or 34.
BTN 20-0559 TKOF on RWY 34 shall be executed from interseciton with TWY R8 unless whole RWY length is required for safety reasons."

Greez
Fred Nikles

Hi

Well, very useful and thank you very much for your information.
Unfortunately we can not have different afcads for different times of the day, but mixing all your useful information, it tells me that:
- For landing we have 14, 16, 34 and 28. With my little improvements, all 4 are available.
- For takeoff we have 10, 28, 32 and 34. Only 32 is closed for TO, because otherwise I would have a lot of aircrafts taking off from 14 as well (both sides need to be opened as you know). Being 16 a longer runway than 16 I am sure that our inteligent aircrafts may prefer 16 to depart, but to prevent any conflicts and strange things, better to close both sides for TO.  

In 95 % of the time, I am quite sure that 14 and 14 are the main runways for landing and maybe 28 from a few ones, and 28 as well as 16 are the main runways for take off. With the afcad system we have another problem. The afcad shows in the runway description:

- 14/32
- ... (all intermediate runways of the star system)
- 16/34
- ... (all intermediate runways of the star system)
- ... (all intermediate runways of the star system)
- 28/10

Why this? If I would write 10/28 and not 28/10, aircrafts would use 10, 14 and 16, or in the opposite way, 28, 32, 34.

Now, they use 14,16 and 28 and they cover a large "angle" for wind settings, maybe from 80 or 90 degrees to 320 or 330 which is almost what should happen in real life (I don´t know LSZH very well, but it will be not so much different than what I am saying). Even with different angles, they are at the same time not strong, and when they don´t pass 10 knots, FS can choose the best way to solve it. For the rest of the "angle" which maybe happens quite a few times, the simulator would choose the opposite system (10, 32 and 34). Since 32 is closed for landing it would be choosen for TO and 34 for both operations. Runway 10 maybe for TO since there is an ILS at 34 and aircrafts would prefer ILS than visual approach. That´s my easiest explanation of the star system built like that and not in other way.


harpsi

[harpsi]

Soory

Work this AFCAD in the FSX too?

Thk Peter

Hi

I never used FSX and I don´t know how it works. Well, just try. Maybe FS dream time can explain that one for me as well.

If needed and if the afcad tool is the same, maybe someone from the team can send me just the FSX afcad and I can make those little improvements, the same work as I did to the FS9 afcad. 

And don´t forget the airlines for me if someone can handle that as well.

harpsi

[anduril]

so when will this new afcad file be avalible ? ;-)

[harpsi]

so when will this new afcad file be avalible ? ;-)

The "new" afcad is already available in my first post. It just needs some more improvements about the parking spots but the major improvements are already there: the star system with all runways available and some little adjustments on parking spots and taxiways.

harpsi

[Urs Wildermuth]

Unfortunately we can not have different afcads for different times of the day, but mixing all your useful information, it tells me that:
- For landing we have 14, 16, 34 and 28. With my little improvements, all 4 are available.
- For takeoff we have 10, 28, 32 and 34. Only 32 is closed for TO, because otherwise I would have a lot of aircrafts taking off from 14 as well (both sides need to be opened as you know). Being 16 a longer runway than 16 I am sure that our inteligent aircrafts may prefer 16 to depart, but to prevent any conflicts and strange things, better to close both sides for TO.  

Correct but for the bit on runway 32. 32 is worked when 28 is landing runway or if traffic allows.

In 95 % of the time, I am quite sure that 14 and 14 are the main runways for landing and maybe 28 from a few ones, and 28 as well as 16 are the main runways for take off. With the afcad system we have another problem. The afcad shows in the runway description:

Main landing runway is indeed 14, closely followed by 28 these days and 34. As you say, the problem is with daily times. There are pretty much defined patterns for different configurations, but if we can't define that in AFCAD, then there is not much point in discussing it.

Generally:
Main configuration: 14 is main landing runway with 16 and 28 take off runways
DVO 28: 28 is main landing runway (it's got an ILS now btw) and 32 and 34 take off runways.
DVO 34: 34 is main landing runways, take offs on 32, 28 and 34.

Normally, DVO 28 is in use in the evening after 9pm local weekdays and 8pm on sat/sun, DVO 34 is in use from 6 to 7 on weekdays and from 6 to 9 on weekends. If DVO 28 does not work due to met limitations, DVO 34 is used and normal config if CAT II/III conditions prevail.

Now, they use 14,16 and 28 and they cover a large "angle" for wind settings, maybe from 80 or 90 degrees to 320 or 330 which is almost what should happen in real life (I don´t know LSZH very well, but it will be not so much different than what I am saying). Even with different angles, they are at the same time not strong, and when they don´t pass 10 knots, FS can choose the best way to solve it. For the rest of the "angle" which maybe happens quite a few times, the simulator would choose the opposite system (10, 32 and 34). Since 32 is closed for landing it would be choosen for TO and 34 for both operations. Runway 10 maybe for TO since there is an ILS at 34 and aircrafts would prefer ILS than visual approach. That´s my easiest explanation of the star system built like that and not in other way.


harpsi

I wish it was but it isn't. Landing and departure runways at ZRH are basically politically assigned. Only if limits on tailwind or visibility demand a change, then you have a chance to do it as you say. Since the introduction of the DVO (Deutsche Verordnung) which limits the traffic to 16/14, things have deteriorated from bad to worse.

Best regards
Urs