P3D Compatible Ground Poly for Older FS9 Products

[garrettprs]

Hi FSDT. I've made some posts in the past that have alluded to ground poly but as I've learned more about things, I've come to the conclusion that at least half of the current product line was either developed for or with FS9 in mind. As it so happens, three of the FSDT products that I have licenses for fall into this category (KFLL, PHNL, KLAX) and I've wanted KDFW for a while, almost recently purchasing it this past weekend with the combo discount with GSX.

But I've come to realize: these airports probably won't ever have their ground poly redone unless a whole new version is released, correct? I mean, there do no appear to be point-releases (e.g. KFLL v1.7 or PHNL v1.6 or KDFW v2.3) in the works that happen to contain new ground poly? Further, it seems that only KORD is in the middle of an update.

I raise this point--amicably I might add--for a couple of reasons. First is that older FS9-compatible ground poly performs sub-optimally with newer iterations of P3D. Second, as is the case with PHNL, it will appear that an aircraft's landing gear is sunken under a translucent top layer of ground poly. Thirdly, as is the case with KFLL, lighting effects can be offset from objects.

And just so this is clear, Umberto, I'm not looking for a fight or looking to square off with FSDT: I deeply admire your products and I'm not insinuating that there's anything at issue with the newer products. I may hold off on KMEM, KCLT and KSDF if for only because they don't interest me geographically or architecturally. I also know, however, that only KORD is slated for update. So that puts people like me--who want to buy older products and use them in P3D, in an odd spot: because of LM's development of ESP, older products just simply do not work either at all or as well (speaking generally, not just in relation to FSDT). And we've recently seen some top-tier scenery developers (we know who they are) caught with their pants down with regard to using old ground poly SDKs. It was actually shocking to me that this wasn't a bigger throw-down and that these developers never really seemed to have their feet held to the fire.

That all being said, FSDT markets their products as either being compatible with "Lockheed Martin Prepar3D" or "Lockheed Martin Prepar3D 1.4 or later" (both quotes taken directly from FSDT product pages). So I will grant that none of the products are explicitly stated to be compatible with the latest version, v3, but these descriptions do imply that. Again, I'm merely looking at product text here.

I suppose that there are two options, one that I favor and one that I don't. The one that I favor is great for customers but harder on developers, and the one that I don't favor, well, vice versa. One involves making the ground poly of all of the affected airports compatible with P3D. And again, I sympathize with FSDT and the other scenery developers who shall not be named. If it was as easy as recompiling a ground poly BGL through the latest P3D SDK, then yeah, we'd all be good. But it's not, and it requires work... and I get that. The other option is, of course, to be slightly more direct on the product pages and specify which versions of P3D that many of the airports' ground poly is fully compatible with, e.g. the files have been made with a specified P3D SDK.

Again, not here to start a fight or a pissing match. I'm both a fan of FSDT and a customer (I own licenses to 5 products, perhaps several more in the future). And in total and complete fairness to FSDT, you guys offer full, time-limited trials to your products. While that is almost unheard of in the FS scenery community, it's still not sufficient to folks to that may not understand the detriment that not-fully-P3D-compliant ground poly has on both aesthetics and performance.

Best wishes and be well.

[virtuali]

As it so happens, three of the FSDT products that I have licenses for fall into this category (KFLL, PHNL, KLAX) and I've wanted KDFW for a while, almost recently purchasing it this past weekend with the combo discount with GSX.

That's not entirely correct. KLAX and KDFW are BOTH 100% compliant with P3D 3.x, and they don't use any FS9 code. The only sceneries that still use FS9 code are:

- JFK V1. We FULL advertise this as an FS9 scenery, and suggest users to buy (or upgrade to) JFK V2

- O'Hare, which is planned for a total remake

- Geneva, which is also planned for an upgrade.

This leaves just Zurich and the Hawaiian airports so, it's just 4 products out of 18 we have on sale here.

Maybe you were confused by KLAX and KDFW possibly made using FS9 ground polygons, because they ALSO available for FS9, but it's not like that, both these sceneries have been designed for FSX right from the start, and back-ported (with great effort) to FS9.

That all being said, FSDT markets their products as either being compatible with "Lockheed Martin Prepar3D" or "Lockheed Martin Prepar3D 1.4 or later" (both quotes taken directly from FSDT product pages). So I will grant that none of the products are explicitly stated to be compatible with the latest version, v3, but these descriptions do imply that. Again, I'm merely looking at product text here.

That's not entirely true. The issue, as you correctly said, is the usage of FS9 ( more correctly, FS8 ), ground polygons, which cause some issues in P3D and are not in general good performers.

And if you check all the descriptions for the sceneries that don't have this issue, you can see this:

NEW Ground Shaders technology with 100% "Pure FSX" code (FSX only)

This indicates the scenery, although is still available in an FS9 version, doesn't use ANY FS8 code code in the FSX version.

The description, of course, is not even required for the later products that don't even have an FS9 version to begin with, like KMEM, CYVR, KIAH, etc.

So, if you know the issue is the usage of FS8 ground polygons issue, you have all the information to recognize which sceneries don't have any of them. And if you don't, the Trial is your friend.

And in total and complete fairness to FSDT, you guys offer full, time-limited trials to your products. While that is almost unheard of in the FS scenery community, it's still not sufficient to folks to that may not understand the detriment that not-fully-P3D-compliant ground poly has on both aesthetics and performance.

I simply don't agree here. The Trial, as it's made, is more than enough to evaluate every aspect of a scenery. It doesn't ever expire. It's NOT just "5-6 minutes". It's 5-6 minutes PER SESSION.

This mean an user wanting to try different things, like fps, compatibility with other products, detail, accuracy of the navaids, etc. can dedicate a separate 5-6 minutes session for each separate test. He can try different settings, for example, restart the sim, exit again, try again new settings, etc. This, for an unlimited amount of time and with no expiration date. It has been DESIGNED to be totally suited to the tinkering nature of the typical enquiring flight sim user.

So, in general, I'd say that most of the scenery we made are totally and entirely compatible with every P3D version, and this includes EVERYTHING we released from KDFW onward (so it's 100% of the sceneries we made in the past 6 years), and for older sceneries, the Trial is entirely suited to allow potential new users if the level of compatibility with the latest sims is enough for them.