Author Topic: KMEM Stuttering  (Read 61446 times)

ROMAN78

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KMEM Stuttering
« on: June 04, 2016, 06:58:31 am »
Hello,

I'm love this scenery  :D.. The best ever!!! However, I was wondering if there's anyway to fully disable the sounds in the tower. It's causing significant stutters for me on takeoff and landing with VAS/FPS. Any suggestions?

roman78

HeadlessHershel

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2016, 08:33:07 am »
Im getting them too. pretty solid 30 fps so i shouldnt be. I dont think it is from atc though

virtuali

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 12:45:56 pm »
I'm love this scenery  :D.. The best ever!!! However, I was wondering if there's anyway to fully disable the sounds in the tower. It's causing significant stutters for me on takeoff and landing with VAS/FPS. Any suggestions?

What makes you think it's the Tower sounds that are causing stuttering and possibly VAS or fps issues ? They obviously aren't, because NOTHING in the Tower interior is ever loaded until you are VERY close to it, basically in front of the door.

And of course, even if you go inside the Tower, all textures, models and sounds are immediately removed from memory the moment you go outside the very tight cylindrical perimeter outside the Tower.

In addition to that, all other animated scenes are NOT loaded, unless you go very slow or stop the plane (less than a normal taxing speed), for the precise reason that loading/unloading process won't cause ANY stuttering.

Same for the detailed hangar interiors. They are NOT loaded, unless you open the hangar doors. When the doors are closed, the interior is a simple flat polygon with nothing inside.

So, if you get stuttering, they are not coming from anything related to sounds, the control tower, the animations, etc.

luggage

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 02:37:26 pm »
I'm experiencing something similar, but it only seems to be on final approach that it's noticeable. The scenery is pretty smooth on the ground, and on the downwind leg of an approach, but it begins to stutter on finals. I tried playing with the AntiPopUp value (which FlightBeam recommended for KSFO) to no avail.

Could if be ground clutter loading once the vehicle is below a certain altitude and closer to the airport?

virtuali

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2016, 02:40:40 pm »
Could if be ground clutter loading once the vehicle is below a certain altitude and closer to the airport?

Most likely, but most of them (the most demanding objects, which are the hundreds of parking "scenes" around each parking with human animations) are only loaded when the airplane is moving very slow.

Some of them are loaded when going below a certain altitude, and some when entering some areas.

The scenery would *never* fit in memory, if we tried to load everything at once, which would make for a  more stutter-free experience (but a probably lower frame rate, overall) IF it could fit in memory all at once, which is not the case.

ROMAN78

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2016, 07:13:44 pm »
I'm love this scenery  :D.. The best ever!!! However, I was wondering if there's anyway to fully disable the sounds in the tower. It's causing significant stutters for me on takeoff and landing with VAS/FPS. Any suggestions?

What makes you think it's the Tower sounds that are causing stuttering and possibly VAS or fps issues ? They obviously aren't, because NOTHING in the Tower interior is ever loaded until you are VERY close to it, basically in front of the door.

And of course, even if you go inside the Tower, all textures, models and sounds are immediately removed from memory the moment you go outside the very tight cylindrical perimeter outside the Tower.

In addition to that, all other animated scenes are NOT loaded, unless you go very slow or stop the plane (less than a normal taxing speed), for the precise reason that loading/unloading process won't cause ANY stuttering.

Same for the detailed hangar interiors. They are NOT loaded, unless you open the hangar doors. When the doors are closed, the interior is a simple flat polygon with nothing inside.

So, if you get stuttering, they are not coming from anything related to sounds, the control tower, the animations, etc.


I understand what your saying, However I can only tell you what I'm experiencing on takeoff and landings. It happened yesterday  as I changed views on landing & as I rotated from in/out the cockpit and locked views.
ROMAN78
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 07:19:20 pm by ROMAN78 »

HeadlessHershel

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2016, 07:30:41 pm »
My stutters start when im about 1/3rd of the way down runway 36 and continue until i rotate and am off the ground. Seems to happen the first time i load into the scenery that it only happens but im not sure what is causing it.

ROMAN78

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2016, 07:33:00 pm »
Likewise.. I know it has new features... man is it awesome :D.. I just want to be able to enjoy it fully like I do all the other FSDT sceneries.

ROMAN78

ipg1939

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2016, 04:19:38 am »
It stutters just like PHNL does.

hawkhero

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2016, 11:35:47 am »
I get stuttering also. about every 5 seconds or so.

virtuali

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2016, 04:13:30 pm »
It stutters just like PHNL does.

They are totally and entirely different sceneries, but in both cases, there's some loading/unloading made in the background which is NOT free, and it's obviously done to SAVE MEMORY. I'm sure you'll rather not want to have an OOM, so you "might" get a smoother experience, at least until it does't crash.

Check this video:



It shows very minor stuttering, but the settings are VERY high, with Dynamic reflections set to maximum, addon weather effect, the PMDG-777 memory monster (3.3GB of VAS taken), and he's running on 4K resolution too.

robains

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 10:33:46 pm »
Hi Umberto,

I still do get "some" stuttering at specific points along the runway and I'm pretty sure it's related to the Hanger ... your VAS conservation processing is indeed working VERY well and as you suggested the "release" of resources is not "Free" in terms of CPU cycles.  Is it possible to further optimize your release/instantiate logic such that it only happens when VAS is close to the limit (i.e. around 3.8GB or higher) or when the source view is much closer to the object?

I'm guessing your current logic is operating from a calculated "view distance" from view source to object?

So for those of use that are NOT on the "edge" of VAS don't have to be subject to the resource release CPU penalty.

Again, keep up the innovation for VAS consumption ... hopefully come year end you'll not have to worry about that any more ;)

Cheers, Rob.

virtuali

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 01:56:02 am »
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I still do get "some" stuttering at specific points along the runway and I'm pretty sure it's related to the Hanger

The hangar is static and simple, if you close its doors, the interior is just a basic textured flat polygon when seen from the outside with the doors closed.

The complex animated interior (and all the related sounds) will be loaded only if you open the door. Everything will be thrown away if you close it again.

So, as a general performance trick, always close the door if you are not interested in the hangar anymore.

Is it possible to further optimize your release/instantiate logic such that it only happens when VAS is close to the limit (i.e. around 3.8GB or higher) or when the source view is much closer to the object?

I'm guessing your current logic is operating from a calculated "view distance" from view source to object?

Well...yes and no. We already did this in 2007. Sometimes we still use this for very simple things, but KMEM is way smarter.

Today is far more complex: we use our collision system to help us define precise areas within a place so, instead of colliding, some objects appear when you "collide" (not really, just logically) in an area with a custom size in every dimension. For example, we have a logical cylinder around the Control Tower, so nothing is loaded unless you are *very* close to it, in front of the door, basically.

We tie also other conditions to minimize stuttering, for example not creating some stuff if your speed is higher than a very low taxi speed or, of course, if you are flying (or landing)

This is done entirely in C++ code in Couatl.exe, outside the sim, so the processing for this is zero VAS and zero fps impact. The stutters are not because we spend time calculating all our stuff. Couatl being a separate .EXE means it gets its own CPU spare cycles from the OS, and if you check how much CPU it takes, it's usually around 1% and not taken away from the sim.

What causes the stutters, is the time the sim takes to reload an object, which depends on its size. So, if you are discarding a 10MB 3D object, the advantage is that you just recover 10MB of VAS (+ VRAM for its textures), but the side effect is that you will have to reload it these 10MB at some time, hence the small stutters.

The scenery would never, ever, fit in RAM, if we tried to fit all at the same time. Just the small scenes with some animated guys around every parking take about 4-5 MB each, and there are 200 of them! That would mean 1.0GB just for them, and this is just polygons without even considering the textures...instead, we can select to load only the 2-3 close to your plane, and take only 15-20 MB instead of 1.0GB.


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So for those of use that are NOT on the "edge" of VAS don't have to be subject to the resource release CPU penalty.

Well, but there's also the fps issue. Even if you could afford more objects to be loaded before having a problem with VAS, you'll then start to have fps issues.

Quote
Again, keep up the innovation for VAS consumption ... hopefully come year end you'll not have to worry about that any more

I really hope that 64 bit will not be an excuse for lazy developers to "put everything in", just because it won't ever OOM, slowing down the fps to a crawl...

robains

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 08:49:28 am »
Haha ... are you kidding me, as soon as there is a 64bit P3D you KNOW everyone will start using 8192 textures.

With the current issue with some airports runway textures and markings not loading/visible under V3.3, I was shocked to find just how much VAS those runway textures consume .. pretty close to 1GB VAS ... I guess it's somewhat understandable since runway and taxi-ways are such large surfaces ... but given they seem to be a major source of VAS usage, how about an optimization that would act like a LOD radius, where you only load higher res runway/taxiway textures with a certain radius of the aircraft/view position?

For large airports with many runways, it unlikely we'll care about the texture quality of any runway other than the one we're taking off from or landing on.

Cheers, Rob.

ipg1939

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Re: KMEM Stuttering
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2016, 12:43:28 pm »
Yea so it stutters just like PHNL like i said. Happens about 200' from landing. has 3-4 hiccups while touching and slowing down. then goes away. Its a trademark FSDT thing.