Re: the "no marshaller at KLAX" problem

[stefan]

Hi Umberto, hi everyone,

this topic has come up a couple of times

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,8676.0.html
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,8759.0.html
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6734.0.html

I'm having the same issue. Re-running the latest GSX installer as suggested in one of the above mentioned threads did not help, so I did some testing. The problem only occurs when using a large jet, such as the PMDG 777 and only when pulling into a gate position. With the NGX or an FSX stock aircraft such as the A321, everything's fine at all gates, and with the 777, the marshaller does indeed show up when using a remote stand, such as at the Imperial Cargo Complex, stand #6. The problem is: when marshalling a 777, the marshaller will stand further away from the aircraft, which is logical: the pilots are sitting much higher up, so this is necessary for them to be able to see him. When marshalling a smaller plane, the guy will stand much closer.

Examples:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/678689/KLAX%20marshaller%20B77W.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/678689/KLAX%20marshaller%20A321.jpg

See the difference? As a result, when taxiing to a gate, e. g. the TBIT with the 777, the marshaller will actually stand inside the terminal building and is therefore not visible. Now, in one of the above mentioned threads, one fellow pilot wrote this:

Well i figured out myself. The marshaller distance was set to 27m by default. I changed it to 21m at now it is visible. But this needs to be done at 60% of the gates and all are random which is a pain.

So the problem can be solved that way, but as he said, it is quite annoying to do this with every gate individually. Long story short: is there any way that this could be fixed somehow?

Thanks a lot and best regards
Stefan

PS. what's with the digits above the marshaller in the screenshots? Never noticed it in KJFK. Looks like a developer feature to me?

[virtuali]

I'm having the same issue. Re-running the latest GSX installer as suggested in one of the above mentioned threads did not help, so I did some testing.

There's no issue whatsoever. The thread about getting the latest update was because just ONE gate was set wrong at KLAX, but it's an entirely different issue.

The problem is: when marshalling a 777, the marshaller will stand further away from the aircraft, which is logical: the pilots are sitting much higher up, so this is necessary for them to be able to see him. When marshalling a smaller plane, the guy will stand much closer.

It's not a "problem". As you realized yourself, it's made intentionally, otherwise you won't be able to see the marshaller from an higher point of view.

See the difference? As a result, when taxiing to a gate, e. g. the TBIT with the 777, the marshaller will actually stand inside the terminal building and is therefore not visible. Now, in one of the above mentioned threads, one fellow pilot wrote this:

The GSX *manual* says that too, Page 22, when the "Maximum Marshaller distance" parameter is explained:

By default, the Marshaller distance it’s a function of the Parking radius specified in the AFCAD, and the eyepoint position in the cockpit: the higher the eyepoint, the farther away the Marshaller will be placed. The distance is lowered if there’s a jetway, on the assumption that Gate usually a wall behind, so the Marshaller might be easily hidden behind it.

Sometimes, it’s possible this calculation can’t fit any situation. By setting this value to a number of meters (start with about 20 meters) you can fix situations were the Marshaller can’t be seen because it’s inside a building

So the problem can be solved that way, but as he said, it is quite annoying to do this with every gate individually. Long story short: is there any way that this could be fixed somehow?

Who said you have to do it "individually" ? Any parameter change in the scenery customization editor can be set for:

1) A single parking, which is the default behavior

OR

2) Multiple parkings, selected by clicking on their names on the parking tree listing on the left with the CTRL or Shift key depressed

OR

3) An entire terminal, by clicking on the terminal name in the parking tree listing.

OR

4) The whole airport, by clicking the ICAO code at the root node

In all cases, the window will tell you how many parkings will be affected by that change.

PS. what's with the digits above the marshaller in the screenshots? Never noticed it in KJFK. Looks like a developer feature to me?

It surely isn't. It's a feature requested by USERS, that we promptly added following this discussion on Avsim:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/450688-gsx-marshallerthat-wasnt-a-very-good-parking/page-3

Without realizing someone might want to turn it off...which is of course possible, see here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,10854.msg84132.html#msg84132

[stefan]

The problem is: when marshalling a 777, the marshaller will stand further away from the aircraft, which is logical: the pilots are sitting much higher up, so this is necessary for them to be able to see him. When marshalling a smaller plane, the guy will stand much closer.

It's not a "problem". As you realized yourself, it's made intentionally, otherwise you won't be able to see the marshaller from an higher point of view.

Well, if the marshaller is standing inside the building, I can't see him either. So it's kind of a problem in my opinion.

The GSX *manual* says that too, Page 22, when the "Maximum Marshaller distance" parameter is explained:

By default, the Marshaller distance it’s a function of the Parking radius specified in the AFCAD, and the eyepoint position in the cockpit: the higher the eyepoint, the farther away the Marshaller will be placed. The distance is lowered if there’s a jetway, on the assumption that Gate usually a wall behind, so the Marshaller might be easily hidden behind it.

Sometimes, it’s possible this calculation can’t fit any situation. By setting this value to a number of meters (start with about 20 meters) you can fix situations were the Marshaller can’t be seen because it’s inside a building

Okay, I thought when you release a scenery with integrated GSX (for the record, I love both the scenery and GSX) you would have tested all terminals with different sizes of aircraft before release, so that your customers don't have to adjust the settings of pretty much all terminals to be able to use the marshaller feature to begin with.

So the problem can be solved that way, but as he said, it is quite annoying to do this with every gate individually. Long story short: is there any way that this could be fixed somehow?

Who said you have to do it "individually" ? Any parameter change in the scenery customization editor can be set for:

1) A single parking, which is the default behavior

OR

2) Multiple parkings, selected by clicking on their names on the parking tree listing on the left with the CTRL or Shift key depressed

OR

3) An entire terminal, by clicking on the terminal name in the parking tree listing.

OR

4) The whole airport, by clicking the ICAO code at the root node

In all cases, the window will tell you how many parkings will be affected by that change.

Okay, thanks for the info.

[virtuali]

Well, if the marshaller is standing inside the building, I can't see him either. So it's kind of a problem in my opinion.

If the marshaller distance didn't increase with the cockpit height, you won't see him either because it was cover by the airplane now so no, it's not a problem in either way.

Or, if you will, it's always a "problem". That's the main reason why a GSX scenery customization feature exists in the first place, to solve issues that can't be calculated automatically.

Okay, I thought when you release a scenery with integrated GSX (for the record, I love both the scenery and GSX) you would have tested all terminals with different sizes of aircraft before release, so that your customers don't have to adjust the settings of pretty much all terminals to be able to use the marshaller feature to begin with.

This is what we do yes but of course, I can't tell (you haven't said exactly which specific gate you tried) the customization hasn't been made correctly on that specific place OR if you tweaked the "Max Wingspan allowed" parameter, to allow the 777 to be serviced by GSX when it shouldn't because it's too small.

We always ask in ANY case where's something "looks" like a problem, to ALWAYS include the precise, exact information, with the most important being:

- Which gate you used

- Which airplane (ok, the PMDG 777)

- If you already customized the scenery with GSX, and how.

[stefan]

This is what we do yes but of course, I can't tell (you haven't said exactly which specific gate you tried) the customization hasn't been made correctly on that specific place OR if you tweaked the "Max Wingspan allowed" parameter, to allow the 777 to be serviced by GSX when it shouldn't because it's too small.

We always ask in ANY case where's something "looks" like a problem, to ALWAYS include the precise, exact information, with the most important being:

- Which gate you used

- Which airplane (ok, the PMDG 777)

- If you already customized the scenery with GSX, and how.

Hi Umberto,

I've taken a minute to do some testing with the PMDG 777, both variants (77L and 77W). The GSX settings have not been customized up to this point, everything's default.

TBIT
South-eastern side:
101: marshaller visible from the 77L, not visible from the 77W
Gate 102: not visible from the 77W, visible from the 77L (standing right in front of the wall)
103: same as 102
(104 and 105 are too small for the 777)

North-eastern side:
119+120: same as 102
(121-123 are too small)

Western side:
106: visible from both the 77L and the 77W, as the gate is situated at the edge of the building with no wall directly behind it
107-109 visible from neither the 77L or the 77W
110-114: visible from the 77L, not visible from the 77W

Terminal 2
21: visible from the 77L, n.v. from the 77W
27: the same
28: not visible from the 77L or the 77W

Maybe this information is of some use to you.

Best regards
Stefan

[virtuali]

Maybe this information is of some use to you.

Sure. But in the meantime, you can easily fix this in one minute, by simply selecting all these parking (use CTRL-click to select multiple parkings in the tree), and when they are all selected, just lower the Max Marshaller Distance to a lower value. Try with something like 22-25 to start.

[stefan]

Well, if the marshaller is standing inside the building, I can't see him either. So it's kind of a problem in my opinion.

If the marshaller distance didn't increase with the cockpit height, you won't see him either because it was cover by the airplane now so no, it's not a problem in either way.

Or, if you will, it's always a "problem". That's the main reason why a GSX scenery customization feature exists in the first place, to solve issues that can't be calculated automatically.

Well, if I move my head (a.k.a. the viewpoint) forward during the last few meters, I can see him. Even from a short distance, even from a 777 cockpit. Another thought: why is the preset distance of the marshaller different with the 77L and the 77W? The height of these aircraft is the same, and height is the only factor that is relevant to the distance of the marshaller. Also, according to Wikipedia, all gates at the TBIT have visual docking systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_International_Airport#Tom_Bradley_International_Terminal - of course, Wikipedia might be wrong...

to solve issues that can't be calculated automatically.

No, not automatically, but maybe manually, during beta testing? See below.

Maybe this information is of some use to you.

Sure. But in the meantime, you can easily fix this in one minute, by simply selecting all these parking (use CTRL-click to select multiple parkings in the tree), and when they are all selected, just lower the Max Marshaller Distance to a lower value. Try with something like 22-25 to start.

17 meters on the west side of the TBIT. I don't mean to be impolite, but I don't really see how all this tweaking of 20 or 30 gates to make the marshaller usable with widebody aircraft is my job. I paid EUR 33,20 for this scenery, which is above average. And I'm willing to pay this price, as I consider your sceneries to be among the best there are for FSX, next to Flightbeam, especially as they have integrated GSX support. But the fact that one of the most important GSX features needs extensive tweaking by the customer to be usable at all just makes the scenery look incomplete.

[virtuali]

Well, if I move my head (a.k.a. the viewpoint) forward during the last few meters, I can see him. Even from a short distance, even from a 777 cockpit.

But not all users do that, so they won't see the marshaller and will complain.

Another thought: why is the preset distance of the marshaller different with the 77L and the 77W? The height of these aircraft is the same, and height is the only factor that is relevant to the distance of the marshaller

As I've said, the position is calculated from the eyepoint position, and not just from the height, but from the longitudinal position so, if you are seeing two different calculated positions, the only explanation possible is those are not the same in the two variants of airplane.

Also, according to Wikipedia, all gates at the TBIT have visual docking systems

KLAX was made before TBIT was completed, we could obviously add them now in an update for it. Or, more precisely, not an update for KLAX, for a GSX Live Update with a better customization for KLAX.

No, not automatically, but maybe manually, during beta testing?

You are having this problem with the 777, and this wasn't released when KLAX was out, we usually test the marshaller with the default 747, for heavy gates, and the default A321, for non-heavy gates. But maybe some gates, of the 140+ at KLAX, MIGHT have slipped out.

17 meters on the west side of the TBIT

I said START with 22-25 meters, it wasn't a sure number that would always auto-magically work, so my suggestion was out by 5 meters...sorry...

but I don't really see how all this tweaking of 20 or 30 gates to make the marshaller usable with widebody aircraft is my job

Again, you don't have to tweak "20 or 30 gates", you can use the multiple gates selection just ONCE, for all the affected parkings. As I've said, once you found that 17 meters works, just select the whole TBIT and make it 17, it's exactly TWO CLICKS.

. I paid EUR 33,20 for this scenery, which is above average. And I'm willing to pay this price, as I consider your sceneries to be among the best there are for FSX, next to Flightbeam, especially as they have integrated GSX support. But the fact that one of the most important GSX features needs extensive tweaking by the customer to be usable at all just makes the scenery look incomplete.

Maybe you haven't read my previous message carefully enough. I clearly said IN THE MEANTIME.

The TWO CLICKS operation to "fix" the TBIT Marshaller distance is supposed to be a TEMPORARY solution, so you can USE the gates in the MEANTIME, while we make an update to KLAX, that will have docking systems there.

I surely agree that FSDT AIRPORTS should come correctly configured for GSX, and my suggestion to use the customization feature was just so you could use the airport IN THE MEANTIME, while we work on a better solution.